Roundtable Issues Call-to-Action to Members Concerning the Debt Ceiling

U.S. Capitol from side with cloudsThe Real Estate Roundtable yesterday urged its membership—leaders of the nation’s top publicly held and privately owned real estate ownership, development, lending and management firms—to contact federal lawmakers to raise the nation’s debt ceiling. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said the U.S. reached the maximum amount it can legally borrow yesterday, and that “extraordinary measures” would allow the country to continue paying its bills, but only until early June. (NPR and Yellen letter to House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, Jan. 19)

Call-to-Action

  • In the all-member Call-to-Action, Roundtable Chair John Fish (Chairman and CEO, SUFFOLK) and Roundtable President and CEO Jeffrey DeBoer wrote, “We now believe the risk of a default on the federal debt in 2023 is a real and meaningful concern that must not be taken lightly.” Congress has faced this statutory limit on debt 78 times in the past, yet has always acted to increase the debt limit. The note expressed their concern that Congress will face more difficulty in reaching an agreement on the debt ceiling now amid a substantial increase in political acrimony.
  • Today, DeBoer said, “Some threats to the US economy are unavoidable, others are ones of our own making and entirely unnecessary. The potential for a default on the federal debt is a needless and inexcusable risk with potentially dire consequences for U.S. real estate, workers and retirees, and the entire economy. The full faith and credit of the United States government should not be open to negotiation.”
  • Federal Reserve economists believe a prolonged stand-off could cause private interest rates to rise sharply, create liquidity pressures, and severely impair financial markets. “As default risk rises, the impacts will be felt throughout the economy, but especially in borrowing-intensive industries such as real estate,” the Call-to-Action added.
  • The Roundtable note encourages its members to contact both policymakers in Congress and the White House to raise the debt ceiling soon.

Policymaking in the 118th Congress and significant challenges such as the debt ceiling will be discussed during The Roundtable’s State of the Industry Meeting next week in Washington, DC.

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New House Republican Ways and Means Chairman Promises Focus on Working Families, Wages, and Investment

House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Jason Smith (R-MO)

Rep. Jason Smith (R-MO), above, won a three-candidate race this week in the 118th Congress to become the youngest-ever chairman of the powerful House Ways and Means Committee, which has jurisdiction over tax policies affecting commercial real estate. Former Ways and Means Chair Richard Neal (D-MA) now becomes the panel’s ranking member. (Roll Call and Wall Street Journal, Jan. 9)

Chairman Smith

  • Rep. Smith is a 42-year-old lawyer who was first elected to the House in 2012. He served as the top Republican on the House Budget Committee in the previous Congress, and is a close ally of new House Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-CA). (PoliticoPro, Jan. 9)
  • Rep. Smith was a leading supporter of Roundtable-supported legislation introduced in 2021 to make permanent the 20 percent deduction for qualified pass-through business income (Section 199A). The pass-through deduction was enacted on a temporary basis as part of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) in 2017. Rep. Smith also spoke at The Roundtable’s Tax Policy Advisory Committee (TPAC) in June 2016 at the height of the tax reform debate. (Smith news release, Feb. 26, 2021 and stakeholder letter of support).
  • There are only five remaining Republican members on Ways and Means who served on the panel when the TCJA was enacted. Several TCJA provisions are scheduled to expire at the end of 2025, including Section 199A and the limitation on the deductibility of state and local taxes. (Wall Street Journal, Jan. 9)

A New Agenda

House Ways and Means Committee doorway

  • On Monday, Ways and Means Chairman Smith stated, “We will build on the success of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act and examine how our policies can reward working families with a tax code that delivers better jobs, higher wages, and more investment in America.”  He added that he would aim to use the tax code to strengthen American supply chains, encourage domestic energy production, and achieve energy independence. (Smith statement, Jan. 9)
  • On Dec. 7, 2022, Rep. Smith also discussed key priorities that should be addressed by the Ways and Means Committee with Punchbowl News. (Watch video)
  • House Republicans added 10 new members to the Ways and Means Committee on Jan. 11, and six Republican women will be part of the 25-seat majority on the panel. Subcommittee chairs will not be decided for several weeks, according to Chairman Smith. (BGov, Jan. 12)

TPAC will discuss industry tax priorities in the 118th Congress during their next meeting on Jan. 25 in conjunction with The Roundtable’s State of the Industry Meeting in Washington, DC.

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118th Congress Faces Looming Debt Ceiling and Funding Deadlines

Janet Yellen testifying

Today, Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen notified Congress that the federal government is expected to reach its $31.4 trillion debt limit by Jan. 19, officially triggering the start of a potential standoff between House Republicans, the Democratic-controlled Senate, and the White House about how to increase the debt ceiling. (New York Times and Politico Playbook PM, Jan. 13)

Looming Standoff

  • Yellen wrote, “Failure to meet the government’s obligations would cause irreparable harm to the U.S. economy, the livelihoods of all Americans, and global financial stability.” (Yellen letter, Jan. 13)
  • Yellen noted that while the Treasury will take steps to preserve cash, the government may only be able to pay its financial obligations until early June. Treasury’s “extraordinary measures” could include halting pension fund contributions and prematurely redeeming federal bonds. (New York Times, Jan. 13 | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, Oct. 28, 2022)
  • The 118th Congress will eventually need to raise the debt limit to avoid a first-ever national default and global recession. (Politico, Jan. 12)
  • Some Republicans have discussed achieving spending cuts by setting caps on discretionary government funding at FY 2022 levels. This approach would result in a cut of approximately $130 billion from current levels appropriated in the omnibus spending law enacted last month—a non-starter for Democrats. (The Hill, Jan. 10 | Roll Call,  Jan. 9 | Roundtable Weekly, Dec. 22)
  • Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) secured his new position as House Speaker on Jan. 7 by appeasing a small group of hardline Republican conservatives with concessions, which included unspecified spending cuts in exchange for raising the national debt ceiling. (Reuters, Jan. 7 and AP, Jan. 11)
  • White House officials are mounting an outreach campaign to freshman lawmakers and moderate Republicans in an attempt to attract enough votes to avoid a fiscal cliff vote over the debt ceiling. (Politico, Jan. 12)

Government Funding Deadline

Rep. French Hill

  • Another deadline on the financial horizon is Sept. 30, when funding for the federal fiscal year expires. A legislative standoff on spending priorities could lead policymakers to vote on a “Continuing Resolution (CR)” to fund the government programs at current levels or allow a partial government shutdown. (CQ, Dec. 29, 2022)
  • Rep. French Hill (R-AR), above, one of Speaker McCarthy’s allies who helped negotiate with the hardline GOP faction, said Republicans were seeking to design an automatic trigger for a CR in the event that the Senate does not act on House spending proposals.
  • Hill said, “It would be a way for all members of Congress to say, look, we want to fund our government, we want to rein in spending. But if the Senate doesn’t act in the right way, we’ve agreed on this CR that would be triggered by the lack of certain bills not being passed on Oct. 1.” (CQ, Jan. 9)

Rep. Hill will address policymaking in the 118th Congress and capital markets during The Roundtable’s State of the Industry Business Meeting on Jan. 24 in Washington.

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House Legislation Would Require Federal Employees’ Return-to-Office, Agencies’ Plans on Property Leases

Federal Office Building

Legislation introduced in the House this week would require all federal agencies to revert to pre-pandemic office arrangements that were in effect on December 31, 2019 and give employees 30 days to return to their offices. The bill, if enacted, would also require the Biden administration to provide Congress with a plan to mitigate the negative impacts of remote work and report on agencies’ plans for federal property leases. [Bill text of (H.R. 139)]

SHOW UP Act

House Oversight and Reform Committee logo

  • The Stopping Home Office Work’s Unproductive Problems (SHOW UP) Actintroduced this week by House Committee on Oversight and Accountability Chairman James Comer (R-KY)—reflects the views recently expressed by The Real Estate Roundtable to President Joe Biden about the importance of getting more federal workers back to the workplace. (GlobeSt, Jan. 13  and Roundtable letter, Dec. 12, 2022)
  • The Dec. 12, 2022 letter from Roundtable Chair John Fish and President & CEO Jeff DeBoer urged the administration to consider the consequences of federal agencies’ promotion of permanent remote work—and how it magnifies ongoing, harmful economic impacts on cities, local tax bases, and small businesses. The Roundtable letter also noted how agencies should consider how hybrid work arrangements directly affect governmental service delivery and labor productivity. (Roundtable WeeklyDec. 2 and Dec. 16, 2022)
  • The SHOW UP Act would also require the administration to report to Congress on how pandemic-era telework levels affected agencies’ missions, along with federal property lease plans. (Federal News Network, Jan. 11)
  • Similar legislation was introduced in the last Congress by former Rep. Yvette Herrell (R-NM) to address how expanded, pandemic-era telework arrangements negatively impacted agencies’ missions. (One-page backgrounder and Federal News Network, May 20, 2022)

Federal Agencies’ Leases

State of the Union address President Biden March 2022

  • Washington, D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser also recently called on President Biden to get more federal workers back to the workplace and convert underutilized commercial real estate spaces into affordable housing. (Roundtable Weekly, Jan. 6)
  • President Biden commented on federal return-to-the-workplace efforts in his March 2022 State of the Union address, above. “It’s time for America to get back to work and fill our great downtowns again with people. People working from home can feel safe and begin to return to their offices. We’re doing that here in the federal government. The vast majority of federal workers will once again work in person,” Biden said. (White House transcript, March 1, 2022)
  • A General Accounting Office (GAO) survey last year reported that 24 federal agencies planned to reduce their leased space. Sixteen agencies surveyed said they would reduce the number of leases and 19 planned to reduce square footage over the next three years. (GlobeSt, Sept. 15, 2022 and GAO Report, Sep. 7, 2022)
  • The GAO survey noted that “… in a post-COVID-19 environment agencies are likely to significantly reduce their demand for federal real estate due to changes to telework and remote policies.” A footnote in the report added, “GSA leases typically have a date after which GSA can terminate the lease with as little as 90 days’ notice.” (Full GAO report)

In addition to the Washington, DC region, cities throughout the nation are responding to the impact of hybrid work arrangements on local communities and tax bases. Roundtable members will hear about this significant issue during our Jan. 24 State of the Industry Meeting in Washington from Miami Mayor Francis Xavier Suarez, who also serves as president of the U.S. Conference of Mayors.

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GOP Speaker Votes Stymie Start of House Session in Divided 118th Congress

14th Vote for House Speaker 2023

The protracted vote process for Republican House Speaker this week stalled the start of the new GOP House majority in a narrowly divided 118th Congress, portending difficulties ahead for policymakers to reach agreement on raising the debt limit this summer and passing FY24 funding for the government by Sept. 30. This speaker election is the longest since 1859. (Semafor, Jan. 6 | The Hill, Jan. 5 | Bloomberg Law, Jan. 3)

House Challenges Ahead U.S. Capitol evening

  • Until a House speaker is elected, new representatives cannot be sworn in, lawmakers cannot introduce bills, and committee chairs (including leadership of the important tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee) cannot be confirmed. (BGov, Jan. 6 and ABC News, Jan. 5)
  • Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX), an adviser to the Senate GOP leadership team, said raising the debt limit with a slim, five-seat Republican majority in the House that can be leveraged by a small group of staunch conservatives, “will probably be the single biggest challenge the House will have.” (The Hill, Jan. 5)
  • Failure to raise the U.S. debt limit would lead to a first-ever default, causing financial chaos in the global economy. In 2011, an impasse between Republicans and President Obama over increasing the debt limit led to a temporary downgrade of the credit of the United States. The crisis ended after an agreement was reached to cut more than $2 trillion in spending over a decade. (New York Times, Dec. 9, 2022 and Washington Post, Dec. 5, 2022 | Congressional Research Service, Nov. 22, 2022)
  • Additionally, funding for the government expires on Sept. 30, the end of the federal fiscal year. A legislative standoff on spending priorities for FY24 after Sept. 30 could lead to either a “Continuing Resolution” to fund the government programs at current levels or a partial shutdown. (CQ, Dec. 29, 2022)

The Regulatory Front

SEC logo - image

  • The new Republican majority in the House is expected to bring intense oversight of government programs funded by the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) passed by Congress in August—and increased scrutiny of proposed regulations that could impact commercial real estate. (Roundtable Weekly, Aug. 12, 2022)
  • The IRA included nearly $370 billion in climate spending—the largest federal clean energy investment in U.S. history—with measures important to CRE. [See Roundtable Fact Sheets on the IRA & CRE: Clean Energy Tax Incentives (Sept. 20) and Revenue Provisions (Aug. 17)]
  • The Real Estate Roundtable submitted extensive comments to Treasury and the IRS on Nov. 4 that address various clean energy tax incentives in the IRA. (Nov. 4 letter and Roundtable Weekly, Aug. 12)
  • The Roundtable also plans to submit comments by Jan. 18 to the Environmental Protection Agency on EPA federal grant programs that could impact CRE.

  • Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) climate disclosure regulations are now expected by April. The proposed rules would require all registered companies to disclose material financial risks related to climate change, and may include new disclosure requirements for “Scope 3” GHG emissions. The Roundtable submitted extensive comments to the SEC about the proposal on June 10. (Roundtable Weekly, June 10, 2022)

Policymaking in the 118th Congress and regulatory proposals affecting CRE will be among the topics discussed during The Roundtable’s Jan. 24-25 State of the Industry Meeting in Washington, DC.

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Washington, DC Mayor Reiterates Roundtable’s Call for Federal Personnel Return-to-Work

DC Govt Office building

Washington, DC Mayor Muriel Browser this week reiterated views expressed by The Real Estate Roundtable to President Biden about getting more federal workers back to the workplace and converting underutilized commercial real estate spaces into affordable housing. (ABC News, Jan. 2 and Roundtable letter, Dec. 12, 2022)

Federal Employees & Remote Work

DC Mayor Muriel Bowser

  • “The federal government represents one-quarter of D.C.’s prepandemic jobs and owns or leases one-third of D.C.’s office space,” Bowser, above, said in her third inaugural address on Jan. 2. “We need decisive action by the White House to either get most federal workers back to the office most of the time, or to realign their vast property holdings for use by the local government, by nonprofits, by businesses and by any user willing to revitalize it.” She added that converting office space into housing is the key to unlocking the potential of a reimagined, more vibrant downtown. (MarketWatch, Jan. 4)
  • Prominent DC office landlords sent a letter on Nov. 28 to the District’s chief financial officer about eroding local market conditions, including increased vacancy rates, lackluster leasing activity, equity flight, and a financing drought—especially for assets with high levels of vacancy. The landlords warned that DC may face a significant loss of tax revenue that could threaten the city’s fiscal health, and that other cities are experiencing similar conditions. (Commercial Observer, Nov. 29 and Bisnow, Nov. 28)     

  • A recent federal employee survey from the U.S. Office of Personnel Management reports that about 42% of federal employees “telework” at least a few days per week.
  • The federal government maintains facilities in 2,200 communities, influencing local leasing activities, property values, and surrounding small businesses. (Roundtable Weekly, Dec. 16, 2022)
  • Federal proposals aimed at encouraging more Americans back to the workplace, including enhanced child- care and eldercare benefits, are under consideration as the administration formulates its 2023 economic agenda. (Wall Street Journal and The Hill, Dec. 20)

Roundtable View

Virtual SOI 2022 DeBoer and Fish

  • Real Estate Roundtable Chair John Fish, above right, and President & CEO Jeff DeBoer, left, wrote to President Biden last month about the consequences of federal agencies’ promotion of permanent remote work—and how remote work magnifies the ongoing, harmful economic impacts on cities, local tax bases, and small businesses. (Roundtable WeeklyDec. 2 and Dec. 16, 2022)
  • Roundtable Chair John Fish also recently responded to plans by the state of Massachusetts to vacate at least 355,000 square feet of its office footprint. Fish told The Boston Globe on Dec. 27 that government agencies at all levels should consider the effects on small businesses and property taxes when evaluating their back-to-office policies.
  • The Roundtable comments also expressed supported legislation that could help facilitate “the increased conversion of underutilized office and other commercial real estate to much-needed housing.” The letter stated that incentives for conversion projects could be modeled on the rehabilitation tax credit as a cost-effective means to increase the housing supply, create jobs, and boost the local tax base.

How cities are responding to the impact to hybrid work arrangements will be one of several topics that Miami Mayor Francis Xavier Suarez, who also serves as president of the U.S. Conference of Mayors will discuss with Roundtable members at our Jan. 24 State of the Industry Meeting in Washington.

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Treasury Dept. Issues New Rules on Taxation of Foreign Investment in U.S. Real Estate

Foreign Investment in Real Property Act - book

On December 28, Treasury and the IRS released new tax regulations affecting foreign investment in U.S. real estate. 

FIRPTA

  • Among the changes, a proposed rule would repeal a long-standing private letter ruling that foreign investors have relied on when structuring inbound investments. 
  • Under current law, shareholders of domestically controlled REITs are not subject to the Foreign Investment in Real Property Tax Act (FIRPTA)—a statutory regime that subjects foreign investors to capital gains tax on their U.S. property investments. 
  • The proposal, if finalized, would expand the reach of FIRPTA by denying a REIT’s status as domestically controlled if a U.S. corporate shareholder of the REIT is foreign-owned. In other words, the rule would look through a domestic C corporation that owns the REIT, even if the C corporation is a U.S. taxpayer that pays U.S. income tax. 
  • The proposed regulation surprised foreign investors and real estate fund managers who have relied on a 2009 IRS private lettering rule, which held that a domestic C corporation that owns shares in a REIT is a U.S. owner for purposes of determining whether the REIT is domestically controlled. 
  • The proposed rule appears to conflict with policies underlying FIRPTA-related ownership attribution changes enacted in the 2015 PATH Act.  As a practical matter, the tax consequences of the proposal are retroactive because they would apply to existing investments made years ago. (Weil Tax Alert and Skadden Insights)

Additional Provisions & Regulations

Treasury Department

  • Other provisions in the proposed regulations are more favorable. For example, they include rules that allow a sovereign wealth fund to preserve the tax exemption applicable to foreign governments if the fund has only a minority, non-controlling interest in a U.S. real estate business. 
  • Simultaneously, Treasury also released final regulations last month related to the FIRPTA exemption for foreign pension funds, which the Roundtable worked to enact in 2015. The final regulations are largely positive and should facilitate even greater investment in U.S. real estate by qualified foreign pension funds. 

The Real Estate Roundtable’s Tax Policy Advisory Committee (TPAC) has created a working group to develop formal comments and respond to the recent Treasury releases.

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Hybrid Work Arrangements Impacting Office Vacancy Rates

San Francisco cityscape

This week, rising U.S. office vacancy rates were the focus of several media reports as a result of the ongoing, negative impact of hybrid work arrangements. 

  • On Dec. 20, CNBC’s Squawkbox reported that 100 million square feet of office space is now available in Manhattan.
  • On Dec. 18, The Real Deal reported on The Roundtable’s recent letter to President Joe Biden about the harmful economic and social consequences of widespread remote work on cities, local tax bases, and small businesses.
  • The article included a quote from Real Estate Roundtable Chairman and SUFFOLK CEO John Fish and The Roundtable’s President and CEO Jeffrey DeBoer, who stated in their letter, “We are concerned that certain administration policy guidance is encouraging federal agencies to adopt permanent work-from-home policies for federal employees and thereby actually magnifying negative economic and social consequences for cities.” (Roundtable Weekly, Dec. 16)
  • On Dec. 17, the New York Times reported on office vacancy rates in San Francisco. “Office buildings are at about 40 percent of their prepandemic occupancy, while the vacancy rate has jumped to 24 percent from 5 percent since 2019,” according to the article, “What Comes Next for San Francisco’s Emptied Downtown.”

Commercial real estate trends and potential policy responses will be discussed during The Roundtable’s Jan. 24-25 State of the Industry Meeting in Washington, DC.

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House to Vote on Senate-Approved “Omnibus” Funding Package

U.S. Capitol golden glowThe House of Representatives is expected to pass a Senate-approved $1.65 trillion fiscal 2023 bill by tomorrow to avert a government shutdown. President Biden needs to sign the 4,155-page “omnibus” package before midnight on Dec. 23 to fund the government through Sept. 30, 2023. (CNBC and Politico, Dec. 22 | The Hill, Dec. 20)

Omnibus & Taxes

  • The omnibus passed by the Senate today includes $858 billion in military spending and approximately $772.5 billion in nondefense discretionary spending. The $1.65 trillion legislative package is a slight increase over the previous fiscal year’s $1.5 trillion omnibus. (Wall Street Journal, Dec. 22)
  • The massive funding bill also includes a bipartisan package of retirement savings provisions, but not other proposals on lawmakers’ shortlist of end-of-year tax priorities, such as an expansion of the low-income housing tax credit (LIHTC). The Roundtable’s support for the LIHTC and other provisions such as modernizing the rules for REITs and facilitating condominium construction will continue into the 118th Congress. (Tax Notes, Dec. 21 and Roundtable Weekly, Oct. 21)

The outlook for policy in the new Congress will be a topic for discussion during The Roundtable’s Jan. 24-25 all-member State of The Industry Meeting in Washington.

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Treasury Issues Proposed Beneficial Ownership Regulations on Info Retention and Disclosure

Treasury Building bright blue sky

The Treasury Department issued a set of proposed rules this month that address how government officials could access information about the “beneficial owners” of most corporations, limited liability companies, and other entities created in or registered to do business in the United States. (Fact Sheet, Dec. 15 and Federal Register, Dec. 16)

Proposed FinCEN Rules

  • The Dec. 15 Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) issued by Treasury’s Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) follows a final beneficial ownership rule issued on Sept. 30. The previous rule requires millions of companies to report information about their beneficial owners—persons who own at least 25% of a company or exert significant authority over it—to FinCEN. (Final Rule | Fact Sheet | Roundtable Weekly, Sept. 30)
  • The Roundtable and three other national real estate organizations submitted detailed comments to FinCEN on May 5, 2021 addressing several implementation concerns related to the beneficial ownership registry. (Roundtable Weekly, May 7)
  • FinCEN Acting Director Himamauli Das said, “The beneficial ownership information reporting rule finalized earlier this year is a major step forward in unmasking shell companies and protecting the U.S. financial system from abuse by money launderers, drug traffickers, sanctioned oligarchs, and other criminals.”
  • “In this next step, the proposed rule would provide the highest standards of security and confidentiality while ensuring that the new beneficial ownership database is highly useful to law enforcement agencies in its efforts to combat financial crime.” Das added, “As we drive toward full implementation of the Corporate Transparency Act, we move closer to exposing criminals, corrupt actors, and anyone trying to hide ill-gotten gains in the United States.” (Treasury news release and FinCEN Fact Sheet, Dec. 15)

House Republican Opposition

Rep. Patrick McHenry
  • The Chairman-elect of the House Financial Services Committee, Patrick McHenry (R-NC), above, raised concerns about the proposed regulations, stating that protecting Americans’ financial privacy will be a top priority of Committee Republicans’ oversight and legislative initiatives next Congress. (McHenry news release, Dec. 15)
  • “Today’s Notice of Proposed Rulemaking issued by FinCEN does not prioritize Americans’ financial privacy in the way Congress intended,” McHenry said. “FinCEN must include the appropriate protections to prevent unauthorized access and use of the sensitive information collected under this new regime. Until we see a real effort to protect this confidential information, Republicans remain concerned about FinCEN’s commitment to privacy and civil liberties.”

Corporate Transparency Act

  • This month’s proposed set of rules addresses provisions of the Corporate Transparency Act (CTA), which became law in Jan. 2021, and target tax fraud, terrorism financing, and money laundering. (Tax Notes, Dec. 16)
  • The Roundtable is part of a broad coalition of business trade groups that supports a legal challenge by the National Small Business Association (NSBA v. Janet Yellen), which challenges the constitutionality of the CTA. (Coalition statement of support, Dec. 7 and NSBA’s website on the CTA)
  • The coalition stated, “It is clear whatever marginal benefit the CTA affords law enforcement will be far outweighed by the costs borne by small businesses and their owners.”
  • The Roundtable’s Real Estate Capital Policy Advisory Committee (RECPAC) will continue to work with industry partners to address the implications of FinCEN’s proposed rules and the impact it could have on capital formation and the commercial real estate industry. Written comments on the NPRM are due by Feb. 14, 2023.

RECPAC will meet on Jan. 24, 2023 in conjunction with The Roundtable’s State of the Industry Meeting in Washington.

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